I mentioned a couple of days ago that I was thinking about starting up a fantasy RPG to add to my regular Cthulhu games, probably on a monthly basis. To be honest, fantasy has never been by favoured setting, unlike a lot of other people who had it as their ‘gateway’ setting. I got into roleplaying in the mid 1990s when fantasy roleplaying was arguable at its nadir, so grew up on a steady diet of science fiction (Cyberpunk 2020, Star Wars) and White Wolf, only coming to fantasy RPGs later where I approached them more cynically.
However, I am now feeling the urge to kick off a game and explore the clichés and tropes of the genre. Of course this bumps up against the problem of what system to use. This is where you guys come in, as I am hoping you can give me a steer on the best option to invest in amongst the many that are out there.
I had narrowed the field down a little so far. I am not a 'rules guy' at all, so don’t want to have to spend my consulting encumbrance tables or anything. I want something which is well supported with supplements, that actually has some roleplaying involved, and that has a richly detailed setting. I really see this as a pretty casual game where some mates get together, have some fun and chew some scenery.
The following readily spring to mind:
D&D - As I have said before, D&D and I have had a checked past, but it's the classic of the fantasy RPGs, so deserves consideration. But which version? I have discounted 3.5 as I don't want to read fifteen million books to figure out how to play the damn thing. Fourth edition or 'Essentials' could be a possibility, as I like the simplicity and flexibility, and the maps and counter thing seems interesting, but I can't get my head around what Wizards' are planning with the line.
D&D clone - Maybe a 1st edition D&D clone would fit the bill? Though I know very little, such a stripped down game could have potential, though I have my doubts about the amount of actual roleplaying that would be done.
Pathfinder - A well regarded products with lots of support, but it looks complex and unwieldy in a similar vein to D&D 3.5. Doesn't seems like my cup of tea unfortunately.
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - Certainly fits the bill in terms of a rich background and a well supported line. Being an ex-wargamer (albeit a terrible one) I know and like the 'gritty' setting, but again there is the problem of which version. Second edition seems the more well regarded and well supported, and I did pick up a copy of the rules over Christmas cheap, but since it's out of print, acquiring products may be expensive and difficult. Third edition seems to be quite a radical departure and seems to polarise people, so I have my concerns. But I like the aesthetics of the game and the supplements seem pretty cool.
A Song of Ice and Fire RPG - I am a fan of the books and I have had good reports from those who have played it, though the limited support in terms of scenario suggests more back end work will be required than I'm angling for. There are also no dwarfs (except Tyrion of course).
Anyone got some thoughts on the relative pros and cons of the above systems and settings, or which one would best suit my needs? I am open to any and all suggestions. Also shout out if there is any amazing system I have missed, as I'm sure there must be. In return you'll get my everlasting gratitude and probably a beer in a pub sometime.
Fantasy Games 'eh?
ReplyDeleteWell I guess it all depends on what kind of a game you want - how much combat? how much magic? dark or light? how powerful do you want the PC's to be in the world-context?
For my money WFRP 2E is the most solid of the games you list, as it delivers solid combat crunch without taking over the game. The downside is really that some PC's will not have combat characters, and thus may feel marginalised or impotent in combat encounters - it's a question of how your group interacts with each other and the rules as to whether this would be an issue. On the many books - if you can get the Fantasy Flight career compendium and the bestiary, you're pretty well set. I'd just add the adventure vault and possibly the Thousand Thrones campaign if you want to use pre-written adventures - I a collection of PDF adventures and other useful documents from the old scenario competition I flick you if you'd like. Luke can probably add some remarks about the system and Thousand Thrones.
I'd steer clear of WFRP 3e if I were you.
D&D 4e is a good choice if you want a more 'epic' kind of game, and have the players manage their own characters - which should speed up game play. It does a lot of what WFRP 3e tries to do only much better. The downside is that the players actually have to want to engage with the rules and character advancement. I personally don't like it because it really defines the way you need to structure games (if you follow the system as written) and I find the combat fairly absurd. But it is a good low-prep option if your group likes cool powers and wants to smack stuff. Again I suspect Luke has an interesting take.
For my money you might also want to consider Elric or Basic Roleplaying as a fantasy system which is fairly familiar. I like Moorcock's world and really thought there was a lot of good stuff in Elric, which you can either get at BRP or D20.
I don't know about the Song of Fire and Ice, but I'd be interested in hearing other people's views.
Thanks for your insights Dale. It does all come back to the objectives, but at this point I conceptualise it as being 'heroic', 'action packed' and 'cinematic' with correspndingly suitable characters. Not necessarily super charged combat monsters, but individuals fate has chosen for something special...
ReplyDeleteSystems wise, I am hearing you pick out WHFR 2nd Ed and D&D 4E as those most suitable, with the deciding factor being level of detail and story. Very interesting.
I have one word for you - Stormbringer!
ReplyDeleteOkay, so I'm bias (I run the Stormbringer fansite - stormbringerrpg.com), but I love the dark, fate-driven, dangerous world that is the Young Kingdoms. Also it is driven by BRP (although a little more combat driven).
I would say two things against it, however; A) You need players that know and 'get' the Elric novels or at least their style and b) as an OOP game it can be hard to locate (although I know where you can get the pdfs from for a legitimate bargain)!
Marcus
P.S. If you want a copy of WHFRPG to browse - I have one I'm willing to give you!
Stupid blogspot just ate a massive post :(
ReplyDeleteShort version:
- WFRP2e is the most solid RPG out there in terms of mechanics and support. However, its not exactly cinematic and it is technically OOP causing pricing issues with some books. Avoid WFRP3e.
- If you want D&D, go with Castles and Crusades. It has an elegant modern core rule system, yet you can grab any AD&D module off the shelf and run with almost no conversion.
- Dragon Age is D&D done with a modern rule set. Its essentially a cut down version of D&D3e. It is connected to the setting but could be broadened. Limited support and the base set only covers 5 levels.
- Song of Ice and Fire is an awesome RPG and one of my top 3 mechanics wise. However, it is brutal and best suited for intrigue. It has no alternate races, magic or much support.
- Others worth checking out: Dragon Warriors, Runequest 2, Advanced Fighting Fantasy (to be re released), Savage Worlds, True 20 (if you are looking at D&D3e setting and adventures).
In terms of D&D4e, whether it works for you is whether you grok the rules or not. If you do, then its a great game. Essentials is the way to go at the moment as its a nice limited ruleset that plays very well.
ReplyDeleteNone of those are very good really. D&D has its moments, I guess, but it's a bit numbers heavy in all its forms, except 1e, which has other problems. C&C may be a goer, I guess.
ReplyDeleteI have no time at all for WFRP as a system, nor any BRP-derivative. Percentile games have too many problems with no obvious benefits to my way of thinking.
So, with all the caveats well-spelt by Dale, I'd like to throw three new options into the ring for you.
Savage Worlds does a couple of different fantasy-ish settings. It's a fast and easy system that won't get in your way, and statting beasties and NPCs is easy. It can do the free-wheeling adventure thing very well. Obviously if you want dark gritty, harsh etc, not the game for you.
D6 or Mini-6, another solid fantasy game system. Runs fairly quick, but a bit slower than SW. Characters are well-defined, and the game slots in at mid-power fantasy pretty well. Not fantasy super-heroes, but not the losers you end up with in WFRP.
And finally, consider FATE or PDQ. There's no real high fantasy setting available, but it's such an easy game to set-up and run that you could adapt most any setting pretty well, I'm sure. The advantages the game has take a while for players to get used to, but in essence the game allows players huge agency in terms of game direction.
All of these are available in PDF format for relatively little money.
So there you go Andy, folks have come in an pimped their favourite system rides. Re-reading your post I'm not sure if you were wanting to explore a fantasy game ironically or not, but if you were all about the pastiche it'd be fun to check out the Fighting Fantasy system.
ReplyDeleteI have to say I increasingly find system to be an unnecessary distraction from the parts of gaming I enjoy - as we were discussing last night.
Also: just as a side note, now that I actually have the 'Basic Roleplaying' core rules I'm surprised by how much variety there is in the book, and how much you could add to really improve the flavour of games. I had thought it would just be Call of Cthulhu by another name, but it looks like they had a ton of stuff they wanted to add to Cthulhu for ages but didn't to keep the CoC pedants happy and the game simple. I'm quite keen to try out their Supers module some time.
You know when you buy a new phone, the website asks you a bunch of check-box questions? Mostly txting? Mostly calling? Need a megapixel phone? What about GPS? etc
ReplyDeleteThey should have one of those for picking RPGs.
For Fate, Legends of Angelerre is the most prominent fantasy version AFAIK
ReplyDelete@Mash: "Ba humbug" to you in regard to your comment on not any of the listed RPGs being good. ;)
@Dale: if you like BRP then the new roleplaying is a good book. However, I would struggle to choose it over Stormbringer/Elric given that it has a rich setting attached.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, Mongoose's Elric and Hawkmoon stuff may be of interest. There is currently a sale on at Mongoose for the older editions of these RPGS, with new editions running off of Runequest2.
My general attitude is that there's nothing you cant achieve with Storyteller, since its so intuitive you can create monsters by just estimating a dice pool for them. I found WHFR to be a horrible system, but playable if you want a boring grinding mess. I thought Ice & Fire was a great game, mostly because the combat is realistic and brutal, and there are detailed systems for battling political and social encounters. If you want a bunch of globe-trotting heroes stabbing and bragging their way to the top, this game can be adapted for most purposes... the downside is that you'll have to generate setting and beastiary for your own game. You'd also want to create some kind of house rule to make your PCs last longer in a fight, similar to say Exhalteds 'extras' idea.
ReplyDeleteForgotten Realms is pretty much the business end of heroic fantasy games, if you can get hold of the books it has about a trillion pre-generated NPCs and story ideas built into it.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I hope you don't all want your beer at the same time...
ReplyDeleteYou've provided me with a whole bunch of good suggestions which I will follow up on. Obviously in the end it comes down to the style of game I want to play. I'm not much a mechanics guy, so whatever I end up running with I'm likely to tinker with and simplify anyway.
The deciding factor will be whether it serves the purpose of my players and I having fun. This won't be my 'serious themes' game; it will be my 'lets have some fun game'. However, at the same time it won't descend into a 'I'm not actually roleplaying anymore game', as that's no fun for me.
I have got a copy of the WFRP 2nd edition rules that I've started to flip through, and will do a bit more research on the rest. There are a lot of good options out there it seems. I have a feeling the issue of 'realism' in the game will be a deciding factor.